[kmail2] [Bug 393421] New: No ability to hide the HTML Message Status Bar

[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Bug ID: 393421
Summary: No ability to hide the HTML Message Status Bar
Product: kmail2
Version: 5.8.0
Platform: Other
OS: Linux
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Severity: normal
Priority: NOR
Component: UI
Assignee: kdepim-***@kde.org
Reporter: ***@gmx.net
Target Milestone: ---

Created attachment 112189
--> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=112189&action=edit
KMail HTML Status Bar

After upgrading to KMail 5.8 on KDE Neon I have noticed a back "HTML Message"
vertical button bar in the middle of the screen.

This is very distracting and it brings very little functionality. Almost all my
email messages are HTML anyway. And if I click on it nothing happens in the
email view panel.

See the attached screen shot.

[PK]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

PK <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #1 from PK <***@gmail.com> ---
+1

[Laurent Montel]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Laurent Montel <***@kde.org> changed:

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Resolution|--- |WONTFIX
Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED

--- Comment #2 from Laurent Montel <***@kde.org> ---
you can't to disable it as new user didn't know this feature.
So now it's by default.
Regards

[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #3 from Cristian Adam <***@gmx.net> ---
What do you mean by "you can't to disable it as new user didn't know this
feature." ?

As a user I don't need to switch between HTML and plain-text.

I really do care about the vertical space used by the bar, so I need that bar
gone.

I don't think is too much to ask to have this user configurable in the
settings.

[PK]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #4 from PK <***@gmail.com> ---
Kmail is growing into a real quality application that looks good too. But now
the beautiful looks are being hit by this html-status-bar that makes a lot of
noise about (in my opinion) not so much.
If someone finds the message of the bar important that's ok. But I find it more
important that kmail is comforting to the eyes. And is is!
I would very much appreciate to have the opportunity to not see this laud bar.

[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #5 from Cristian Adam <***@gmx.net> ---
I have found a partial workaround – namely changing the background color of the
HTML Status Bar.

This can be done in Settings -> Configure KMail -> Appearance -> Colors. I have
used "#fcfcfc" for all four "HTML Status Bar" entries.

Not the status bar is still eating valuable screen width, but at least is not
an eye sore anymore.

[bugzy]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

bugzy <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #6 from bugzy <***@gmail.com> ---
I actually like the bar and its functionality. Not that my preference addresses
the issue, but I am wondering if the toggle switch to turn off the bar at
"Settings > Configure Kmail > Appearance > General > Show HTML Side Bar" has
been removed. If not, simply turn it off.

[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #7 from Cristian Adam <***@gmx.net> ---
The setting ("Settings > Configure Kmail > Appearance > General > Show HTML
Side Bar") has been removed in KMail 5.8.0 :(

[Jonathan Marten]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Jonathan Marten <***@keelhaul.me.uk> changed:

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[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #8 from Cristian Adam <***@gmx.net> ---
The commit which removed the setting:
https://phabricator.kde.org/R94:1c55919a64491bd5598cf9d8616e77b037edbf87

In my opinion this needs to be reverted.

[Piotr Keplicz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Piotr Keplicz <***@cmc.pl> changed:

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--- Comment #9 from Piotr Keplicz <***@cmc.pl> ---
I wish I could remove this status bar too. I find this information completely
irrelevant and distracting.

[Jani-Matti Hätinen]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Jani-Matti Hätinen <jani-***@iki.fi> changed:

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--- Comment #10 from Jani-Matti Hätinen <jani-***@iki.fi> ---
This is horrible design, and the offered 'justification' for it is a sad, sad
joke.

At least give us a configuration option we can add to kmail2rc.

[Jani-Matti Hätinen]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #11 from Jani-Matti Hätinen <jani-***@iki.fi> ---
If you're worried that new users won't be able to switch between HTML and
non-HTML message views (a feature, which no one uses btw) make the HTML status
bar visible by default and add a comment to the configuration page about the
lost functionality if the bar is disabled. Simply forcing the bar on all users
does absolutely nothing to promote said functionality.

99,5% of Kmail users are old users. Quit messing around with their settings.
We've set it up the way we like it, and we know what we've done and why.

[Dmitry Ivanov]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Dmitry Ivanov <***@gmail.com> changed:

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[Jonathan Marten]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Jonathan Marten <***@keelhaul.me.uk> changed:

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CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #12 from Jonathan Marten <***@keelhaul.me.uk> ---
*** Bug 393473 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[bugzy]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #13 from bugzy <***@gmail.com> ---
Is there any way to re-open this issue. Whereas it is understandable that some
kmail devs may want the html bar displayed by default in emails, there seems to
be no real justification, or at least a satisfactory one, for removing the
ability to change that default behavior.

Note: I speak as one who uses and likes the html bar feature. I just don't
think that it was reasonable to remove the ability to customize kmail,
especially when there was no development cost that we know of(i.e. option that
was already in place).

[Jonathan Marten]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Jonathan Marten <***@keelhaul.me.uk> changed:

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CC| |***@qbitdepot.com

--- Comment #14 from Jonathan Marten <***@keelhaul.me.uk> ---
*** Bug 393595 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

***@hotmail.com changed:

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| |.com

[Steeven Hudon]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Steeven Hudon <***@hotmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #15 from Steeven Hudon <***@hotmail.com> ---
I strongly agree with comments above > I think that this functionality might be
required for some in their daily usage of the software. However, I find it
quite annoying visually and liked the ability we had in previous versions to
remove this bar in the Settings. Please, put it back. Thank you for your
awesome job. Kmail is a really great piece of software ! :)

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

***@qbitdepot.com changed:

What |Removed |Added
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Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED
Ever confirmed|0 |1
Resolution|WONTFIX |---

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #16 from ***@qbitdepot.com ---
@Laurent Montel: a new user wouldn't know about any option in the setting
dialog.
Your explanation makes no sense: should kmail disable any feature a new user
doesn't know about.
This is a regression bug not a new feature: the setting use to be in the
Settings dialog and now it's not.
Why would this bug be closed as wont'f fix. What is not possible to fix or
doesn't require a fix ?

[PK]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #17 from PK <***@gmail.com> ---
I too can't understand why this happened. To me it is a strange choice. In my
eyes there are a few (not much anymore) items to fix in kmail and this is NOT
one of them.
But still, you come a long end with the workaround from commend 5 that
Christian Adams made:

"I have found a partial workaround – namely changing the background color of
the HTML Status Bar.
This can be done in Settings -> Configure KMail -> Appearance -> Colors. I have
used "#fcfcfc" for all four "HTML Status Bar" entries."

You can make this ugly black disappear.

[Pesho]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Pesho <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #18 from Pesho <***@gmail.com> ---
Please, return this option. I don't want HTML message status bar...

[Richard Gladman]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Richard Gladman <***@the-systems-commonwealth.net> changed:

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CC| |***@the-systems-commonwealt
| |h.net

--- Comment #19 from Richard Gladman <***@the-systems-commonwealth.net> ---
Also affected by this bug. Please revert the removal of the setting
(https://phabricator.kde.org/R94:1c55919a64491bd5598cf9d8616e77b037edbf87)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Nate Graham <***@kde.org> changed:

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[Ivo Smelhaus]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Ivo Smelhaus <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #20 from Ivo Smelhaus <***@gmail.com> ---
Just a very humble note to remember, that not everyone has not only the same
point of view bat even the same abilities. E.g. my son is handicapped. He has
impaired sight but additionally needs to have the things more simple to
understand it.
Kmail is actually the only mail client, which was possible to customize for his
need. Yes, Kmail won in totally different field, than one could expected. It
could be customized to be very simple, with big letters and big icons with best
ratio between ability to see context and size of letters and icons.
For me it always was a SW, which, if needed and if one is willing to spend many
hours, is able to be customized in totally unique level. And this is absolutely
different approach than the famous "we know perfectly what is the best for
users, so we do that regardless the user want it or not" :-) .
So the point of my note is, if it's really necessary to leave an area with
unique position of the product. Btw. thanks my son's special needs, I
discovered Linux years ago and we all switched to it as well. So back to Kmail.
We can sure live with the html "something", but reading the discussion, I have
a fear, that something has changed in the general approach and after next few
changes like that, it becomes already unusable for us. And it would be very
sad.

[Coacher]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Coacher <itumaykin+***@gmail.com> changed:

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CC| |itumaykin+***@gmail.com

--- Comment #21 from Coacher <itumaykin+***@gmail.com> ---
Please restore the ability to hide this ugliness. This bar is visually
irritating.

Also rationale behind the change is wrong:
https://github.com/KDE/messagelib/commit/1c55919a64491bd5598cf9d8616e77b037edbf87

"We don't have other method as statusbarhtml for switching mode for the moment"

1. There's a shortcut to toggle HTML view.
2. There's a button that can be added to a toolbar to toggle HTML view.

[Christoph Feck]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #22 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
*** Bug 393473 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[imraro]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

imraro <***@gmail.com> changed:

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[Canoe]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Canoe <***@gmail.com> changed:

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CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #23 from Canoe <***@gmail.com> ---
Arbitrarily just changing this setting for users isn't the best experience.
More so that i spent hours looking for ways to disable it as I usually do, only
to find that option now disabled. While I appreciate all the work developers do
on Kmail, - I think we're old enough to make our own decisions on what level of
hand-holding we need in this area. There are enough markers and warnings as it
is without another one staring us in the face.

[PK]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #24 from PK <***@gmail.com> ---
Dear Canoe (of comment 23). I applied the workaround of Christian Adam in
comment 5.
For the two foreground-items I choose the darker grey #7c7c7c and for the
background items I choose the lighter grey #c0c0c0. It looks even cozy that
way. But I am under the impression that we are protected against our selves and
I don't like to be treated that way. To me that is un-kde-isch...

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

***@gmail.com changed:

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--- Comment #25 from ***@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Laurent Montel from comment #2)

Post by Laurent Montel
you can't to disable it as new user didn't know this feature.
So now it's by default.
Regards

There was no reason to remove this option for users. Put it back. We didn't
come to KDE to be treated like we don't know better, we already have GNOME
maintainer for that.

[Störm Poorun]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Störm Poorun <***@olan.org> changed:

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CC| |***@olan.org

--- Comment #26 from Störm Poorun <***@olan.org> ---
Please use a discrete icon, or go back to the menu setting, or a toggle in the
menu bar, or all three... but not a hideous line which should have stayed in
the 1990s, which a user may not need and can't turn off, and which distracts
Users and is thus bad for workflow (not to mention wasted time trying to figure
out how to make it disappear!)

[Sudhir Khanger]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Sudhir Khanger <***@sudhirkhanger.com> changed:

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CC| |***@sudhirkhanger.com

--- Comment #27 from Sudhir Khanger <***@sudhirkhanger.com> ---
This forced feature brings no benefit to me. I have already decided to use HTML
and to load external resources by default. KMail should honor my decision.

It's distracting and ugly. Please bring back the ability to disable this
feature.

[Cristian Adam]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #28 from Cristian Adam <***@gmx.net> ---
It has been four months already. How hard is for a KDE developer to revert a
commit, review it, and merge it?

Is "Laurent Montel" the only developer who works on KMail?

If somebody does the revert today, it will take months (years?) until the
distros get the fix.

This is crazy!

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

***@avrasoft.com changed:

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CC| |***@avrasoft.com

--- Comment #29 from ***@avrasoft.com ---
KMail 5.8.3 now, I have to add my vote that this is annoying, even with
Cristian's work-around. Please, Laurent! :)

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #30 from ***@avrasoft.com ---
KMail 5.8.3 now, I have to add my vote that this is annoying, even with
Cristian's work-around. Please, Laurent! :)

[Peter Humphrey]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Peter Humphrey <***@prh.myzen.co.uk> changed:

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CC| |***@prh.myzen.co.uk

[Pascal Patry]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Pascal Patry <***@invalidip.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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CC| |***@invalidip.com

--- Comment #31 from Pascal Patry <***@invalidip.com> ---
This commit should definitely be reverted. Not only it removes a setting that
we are used to set, it creates a flicker on the message pane. Whenever I switch
folder, the bar disappears and it seems to appear again only once the content
is displayed. So, the text in the email jump left then right every time I
switch folder.

In order to have a working Kmail again, I've reverted the patch and rebuild the
latest FC28 RPMs. The message lib is freely available here:
https://services.spectrumdt.com/RPMS/messagelib/

No bump in version were executed, so if you are running FC28, simply ensure
that you have the latest version and then reinstall that RPM.
# dnf update messagelib
# rpm -vh --reinstall kf5-messagelib-18.04.3-1.fc28.x86_64.rpm

[Attila]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Attila <***@online.de> changed:

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CC| |***@online.de

--- Comment #32 from Attila <***@online.de> ---
Please return this option. What is the benefit of this HTML Message bar? I
don't get it. It is annoying and it's all the time in the middle of the screen.

[Christophe Giboudeaux]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Christophe Giboudeaux <***@krop.fr> changed:

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Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED
Resolution|--- |INTENTIONAL

--- Comment #33 from Christophe Giboudeaux <***@krop.fr> ---
As already mentioned earlier, this is intentional.

[Christophe Giboudeaux]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Christophe Giboudeaux <***@krop.fr> changed:

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Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED

[Erik Quaeghebeur]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Erik Quaeghebeur <***@equaeghe.nospammail.net> changed:

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CC| |***@equaeghe.nospammail.net

--- Comment #34 from Erik Quaeghebeur <***@equaeghe.nospammail.net> ---
(In reply to Christophe Giboudeaux from comment #33)

Post by Christophe Giboudeaux
As already mentioned earlier, this is intentional.

The fact that it is intentional does not address the issue of this bug report,
which is that functionality that users really want has been removed.

My impression is that there is a push in the KMail development team to simplify
the settings. That may be needed, but there are ways to avoid removing
functionality at the same time. Namely, as was done for Bug 387931, the setting
for this can for example be added to the Expert plugin.

From the commit message I understand that this is a transitional situation (“I
will look at how I can change this feature in the future”). The response to
this bug report has made it clear that during the transitional period it is
preferable to still have this feature.

So please revert or add to the Expert plugin.

(FYI: I personally like and use the HTML bar.)

[Sudhir Khanger]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #35 from Sudhir Khanger <***@sudhirkhanger.com> ---
Created attachment 115264
--> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=115264&action=edit
Alternate UI for the distracting and intrusive html bar

Is it necessary to keep it absolutely ugly and intrusive? Could we not come up
with a UI that is less distracting to the users. Take for example, it can be
shown at the top like the external resources message is shown which is less
intrusive. Please see the screenshot attached.

[Erik Quaeghebeur]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #36 from Erik Quaeghebeur <***@equaeghe.nospammail.net> ---
(In reply to Sudhir Khanger from comment #35)

Post by Sudhir Khanger
Is it necessary to keep it absolutely ugly and intrusive? Could we not come
up with a UI that is less distracting to the users. Take for example, it can
be shown at the top like the external resources message is shown which is
less intrusive. Please see the screenshot attached.

This bug is about the option to hide the HTML bar, which has existed for a long
time and is used and liked by many (and not by many others). This is not the
place to discuss alternative UI proposals. Please keep on topic.

[Peter Humphrey]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #37 from Peter Humphrey <***@prh.myzen.co.uk> ---
(In reply to Christophe Giboudeaux from comment #33)

Post by Christophe Giboudeaux
As already mentioned earlier, this is intentional.

Being intentional doesn't mean it's a good idea. It isn't, as the flood of
comments here shows.

What other development team ignores its users?

[Störm Poorun]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #38 from Störm Poorun <***@olan.org> ---
Open source...

Part of the KDE family...

Not: 'I'm the maintainer, therefore we can ignore all Users without any
rational reason'.

It raises the question, who gets to decide here?

It would be a shame to have to fork this software over one ridiculous and
irrational design choice, but if a decision like this rests in just one pair of
hands and no-one can have any influence, than fair enough - I guess that's the
end result, it also explains so many other opensource software splits in the
past.

You can have usability AND customisation, by intelligent defaults, combined
with advanced settings with certain users.

However, this decision renders Kmail neither usable nor customisable.

No other software makes the casual user have to face an ugly distraction on
every email, with no way of turning it off.

Advanced setting removed. Because the Users can't be trusted to know their own
needs and take their own risks?

And no better way of presenting the option than a block line across every
email. Ouch.

[avlas]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

avlas <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #39 from avlas <***@gmail.com> ---
Yes, it doesn't make any sense (this is just my opinion -- a user that agrees
on 99.9% of KDE dev decisions, but not this one).

This reminds me plasma cashew, btw...

[Brent]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Brent <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #40 from Brent <***@gmail.com> ---
+1 for removing HTML-view feedback (aka the bar, vignet). I think users
understand their own preferences without it.

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> changed:

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Assignee|kdepim-***@kde.org |***@qbitdepot.com

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> changed:

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Assignee|***@qbitdepot.com |kdepim-***@kde.org

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #41 from pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> ---
(In reply to Erik Quaeghebeur from comment #36)

Post by Erik Quaeghebeur
(In reply to Sudhir Khanger from comment #35)

Post by Sudhir Khanger
Is it necessary to keep it absolutely ugly and intrusive? Could we not come
up with a UI that is less distracting to the users. Take for example, it can
be shown at the top like the external resources message is shown which is
less intrusive. Please see the screenshot attached.

This bug is about the option to hide the HTML bar, which has existed for a
long time and is used and liked by many (and not by many others). This is
not the place to discuss alternative UI proposals. Please keep on topic.

And where is the right place to discuss alternative UI proposals ?
There was no discussion when the feature was removed.

[Erik Quaeghebeur]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #42 from Erik Quaeghebeur <***@equaeghe.nospammail.net> ---
(In reply to pqz from comment #41)

Post by pqz
And where is the right place to discuss alternative UI proposals ?

Another bug report (as feature request), kdepim-devel mailing list, KDE forums.

Post by pqz
There was no discussion when the feature was removed.

Not with users, indeed, and that is one of the reasons this bug report is so
‘popular’.

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #43 from pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> ---
(In reply to Christophe Giboudeaux from comment #33)

Post by Christophe Giboudeaux
As already mentioned earlier, this is intentional.

Wouldn't be more simple to change the type of this ticket (to feature request)
instead of opening another one ?

Closing with the explanation that was given seem a bit rude to me.

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #44 from pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> ---
(In reply to Christophe Giboudeaux from comment #33)

Post by Christophe Giboudeaux
As already mentioned earlier, this is intentional.

Wouldn't be more simple to change the type of this ticket (to feature request)
instead of opening another one ?

Closing with the explanation that was given seem a bit rude to me.

[Christophe Giboudeaux]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #45 from Christophe Giboudeaux <***@krop.fr> ---
*** Bug 393595 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[pqz]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #46 from pqz <***@qbitdepot.com> ---
(In reply to Erik Quaeghebeur from comment #42)

Post by Erik Quaeghebeur
Another bug report (as feature request), kdepim-devel mailing list, KDE

Here it is: bug 399245 as a feature request

[Alexander Wilms]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Alexander Wilms <***@gmail.com> changed:

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[avlas]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

--- Comment #47 from avlas <***@gmail.com> ---
(In reply to Cristian Adam from comment #5)

Post by Cristian Adam
I have found a partial workaround – namely changing the background color of
the HTML Status Bar.
This can be done in Settings -> Configure KMail -> Appearance -> Colors. I
have used "#fcfcfc" for all four "HTML Status Bar" entries.
Not the status bar is still eating valuable screen width, but at least is
not an eye sore anymore.

This workaround only works for Kmail launched as a single application. It has
not effect if Kmail is embedded in Kontact.

Not that I wanted to remove it completely but I wanted a more integrated
background in white with nice text in soft blue (breeze like). But no way to do
this :(

[Eridani Rodríguez]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393421

Eridani Rodríguez <***@yahoo.com.mx> changed:

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